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Lord Grim
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Lord Grim

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PostSubject: Re: Any Questions about Christianity?   Thu Jan 07, 2010 2:55 pm

I got some sort of a question:

It is to my understanding that in anicent times, the people believed Jesus Christ to be some sort of god-sent gift, and he was the one who would protect them and stuff. Well then why is it, if he was such a savior, he was crucified. If he truly was the savior of us all, wouldn't it have done him good to stay alive and actually see what he could of done?


Oh Raito you sly devil C:

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PostSubject: Re: Any Questions about Christianity?   Thu Jan 07, 2010 5:23 pm

Good question. This is from my understanding:

He wasn’t believed to be the Saviour by everyone. Most of the Jews didn’t believe him to be the Messiah that was prophesised in their books, what’s called the “Old Testament”. They questioned him again and again, and stoned him and punished him many a time as it says in the New Testament. No Sign that he gave or performed made them accept that he was the Messiah. They kept on harassing him, twisting and misinterpreting whatever he said to be blasphemous, and stoned him. After much plotting, and planning, and betrayal by a disciple, they with the Romans decided to torture him and kill him by crucifixion. In the Old Testament it mentions how this was a severe way of killing someone that had two different methods, a quick death and a slow torturous death. The death was apparent as the bones, especially the legs, are broken.
Before they arrested him, there was a preparation for war. Jesus told his disciples to be prepared,

“And he said unto them, When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye any thing? And they said, Nothing.
Then said he unto them, But now, he that hath a purse, let him take it, and likewise his scrip: and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one.
For I say unto you, that this that is written must yet be accomplished in me, And he was reckoned among the transgressors: for the things concerning me have an end.
And they said, Lord, behold, here are two swords. And he said unto them, It is enough.”

[Luke 23: 35-38]

Jesus knew that they would come and he had to change his strategy, prepare for battle. He led them in the middle of the night to Gethsemane and he positioned them to be ready. Then he went further into the garden with 2 disciples and had them keep guard while he prayed. Why did he pray and what did he pray for? He prayed for rescue of course to the Lord, who he says is ‘my Lord and your Lord.’

“And he took with him Peter and the two sons of Zebedee, and began to be sorrowful and very heavy.
Then saith he unto them, My soul is exceeding sorrowful, even unto death: tarry ye here, and watch with me.
And he went a little farther, and fell on his face, and prayed, saying, O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me: nevertheless not as I will, but as thou wilt.”

[Matthew 26: 37-39]

“And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.”
[Luke 22: 44]

What is he asking? We are told Jesus prayed to God with his heart like no other prayer, asking to let this cup pass from him. I don’t know about you, but if someone who is said the ‘Son of God’ prayed to his ‘Father’, surely the Lord would heed his call, his ‘Son’ of all people no? It is believed that his prayers were heard, as is evident because again and again there were signs that he was not crucified but ‘crucificted’. I’ll explain that later.

After he prayed he went back to see that his disciples were sleeping! Amazing. Jesus says “What could ye not watch with me for one hour?” So what happened after was the Roman Soldiers came and a fight broke out. But of course they were outnumbered and being in slumber they were at a disadvantage. They were caught and so was Jesus. He was sent for trial. And amazingly, his trusting disciples left him,
“And they all forsook him, and fled.” [Mark 14: 50]

The trial was a farce, they had already decided that he would die and had false testimonies against him lined up. So he had lost and the crucifixion was to take place. Again the disciples were not there so none of them witnessed what happened. Amazingly the Signs will show you that he was not crucified but his prayers were heeded.

“And, there appeared an angel unto him from heaven strengthening him”
[Luke 22: 43]

There are actually a lot of signs but I’ll just briefly list them:
a) First was the assurance from Heaven, with the angel strengthening him
b) Pilate found him not guilty in the trial much to the dislike of the Jews and Romans
c) Pilate’s wife is shown in a dream that no harm shall come to Jesus and she tells him that he is not to be harmed
d) Jesus’ legs were NOT broken on the cross but they only “Saw that he was dead already, they brake not his legs” [John 19]
e) He apparently died within three hours and Pilate marvelled at this. He knew this was not possible unless he was on the ‘crurifragium’ a saddle like seat, as was evident as the other 2 on the cross were still alive and they were conflicted to that.
f) They were in a hurry to bring him down from the cross and sent him to the sepulchre, the big tomb of Joseph of Arimathea what would be his resting place. Note the disciples were not there as they forsook him and fled. Only Joseph of Aramathea, Nicodemus and Mary Magdalene along with a few other Mary’s handled his body.
g) The Jews were suspicious as they should be. The tomb was within easy reach, he had a helping hand of his 2 ‘secret’ disciples, the other two were still alive, and his legs were not broken whereas the other two’s were! And Pilate had given a quick permission for them to take him away.

This is what I meant by cruci-ficted. It was made to appear so. He wasn’t. Now there are evidences to show that he was actually still alive after all this and he was not dead nor did he come back as a spirit. I won’t go into that now as it is even longer than what I have written :S
It should not be believed that in order to get salvation or be saved that you have to believe Jesus died on the cross for our sins. On the contrary Jesus does not say this. He says to be saved you have to keep to the commandments and follow him, meaning do what he did. He was sent to make sure the people kept to the commandment and showed many Signs to prove he was sent by God as the Messiah. He was the best of examples.

"And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life? And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
Thou knowest the commandments, Do not commit adultery, Do not kill, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Defraud not, Honour thy father and mother. And he answered and said unto him, Master, all these have I observed from my youth.
Then Jesus beholding him loved him, and said unto him, One thing thou lackest: go thy way, sell whatsoever thou hast, and give to the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, take up the cross, and follow me."
[Mark 10: 17-21]

I will briefly explain the Islamic belief. It is said in the Quran, the Islamic Holy book that Jesus was a mighty servant of God and it is believed that his prayers were heeded. God says in the Quran:

“That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-
And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them;-“
[Chapter 4: 157-159]

For a surety they killed him not. It was only made to appear so, as is evident when they said they saw that he was dead. They never checked. They follow only conjecture, guesswork, as is evident as the Gospel writers, the disciples were not there, they forsook him and fled. God says, He raised him up unto Himself, he heeded his Messengers prayers. He will return again to be a witness against those who believe this conjecture that he was.

I’ll finish off by quoting just 10 verses of the chapter dedicated to the mother of Jesus, ‘Surah Maryam’. God explains why Jesus was here and what the belief of Muslims is about Jesus. Please note I’m not trying to insult or hurt anyone nor am I trying to convert. It is my duty to convey the truth and the message whenever I get the opportunity.

She said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son when no man hath touched me?" He said: "Even so: Allah createth what He willeth: When He hath decreed a plan, He but saith to it, 'Be,' and it is!
"And Allah will teach him the Book and Wisdom, the Law and the Gospel,
"And (appoint him) an apostle to the Children of Israel, (with this message): "'I have come to you, with a Sign from your Lord, in that I make for you out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, and breathe into it, and it becomes a bird by Allah.s leave: And I heal those born blind, and the lepers, and I quicken the dead, by Allah.s leave; and I declare to you what ye eat, and what ye store in your houses. Surely therein is a Sign for you if ye did believe;
"'(I have come to you), to attest the Law which was before me. And to make lawful to you part of what was (Before) forbidden to you; I have come to you with a Sign from your Lord. So fear Allah, and obey me.
"'It is Allah Who is my Lord and your Lord; then worship Him. This is a Way that is straight.'"
When Jesus found Unbelief on their part He said: "Who will be My helpers to (the work of) Allah." Said the disciples: "We are Allah.s helpers: We believe in Allah, and do thou bear witness that we are Muslims.
"Our Lord! we believe in what Thou hast revealed, and we follow the Messenger. then write us down among those who bear witness."
And (the unbelievers) plotted and planned, and Allah too planned, and the best of planners is Allah.
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take thee and raise thee to Myself and clear thee (of the falsehoods) of those who blaspheme; I will make those who follow thee superior to those who reject faith, to the Day of Resurrection: Then shall ye all return unto me, and I will judge between you of the matters wherein ye dispute.
"As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."
"As to those who believe and work righteousness, Allah will pay them (in full) their reward; but Allah loveth not those who do wrong."
[Chapter 3: 47-57]
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